October 17, 2014

DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

US CONSULATE - ISTANBUL

Case no. 23875

The case of the Nassar family applying for permanent residence under political asylum: Mustafa (44), Khadija (33), Umar (12), Abdullah (10), Hana (7), Malak (1)

Interviewer: Stephen Bird

Translator: Emir Said

Interviewer notes: The Nassar family has been living in the Fener district of Fatih, Istanbul, sharing an abandoned home with two other families. Originally from Baghdad, they fled internal strife in 2007, eventually settling with cousins in Kanaan, a town 30 km from Aleppo. They fled to Turkey in March 2013, spending two months at the Karkamis refugee camp before making their way to Istanbul. They applied for US permanent residence in June 2013.

BIRD: This is a preliminary interview, meaning that this is only one step in your process. In this interview we will assess your viability for political asylum in the United States. Any questions?

M. NASSAR: No, sir.

BIRD: You left Baghdad. What were the circumstances and what was the time frame of that departure?

M. NASSAR: We left when the violence became too much to bear. Our children were younger at the time. My wife was pregnant. Our apartment was very small, just two bedrooms. It was very hot, no electricity most days, water sometimes. I am not a greedy or ungrateful man. God is great, I was grateful to him for his blessings. But I was afraid for my life whenever I went out for food or water. My children are growing. It was no way for children to live.

BIRD: Were you working at the time?

M. NASSAR: No.

BIRD: Did you work previously?

M. NASSAR: I owned a bakery, God be praised. My father was a baker.

BIRD: And your wife?

M. NASSAR: My wife was a teacher.

BIRD: How long had you been unemployed?

M. NASSAR: The bakery closed during the invasion, but then we were open again until 2006. Then my father, God have mercy on him, was killed and the bakery closed.

BIRD: What were the circumstances of your father’s death?

M. NASSAR: He was robbed.

BIRD: When in 2007 did you decide to leave?

M. NASSAR: It would have been early in the year. February or March.

K. NASSAR: It was February. We left when we found out I was pregnant.

BIRD: So it was February then?

M. NASSAR: Yes. February.

BIRD: What would you say was the biggest reason for your leaving?

M. NASSAR to K NASSAR: (inaudible)

M. NASSAR: We had no livelihood. Our children were stuck inside. We had no services. We were afraid for our lives. In Baghdad, you were waiting to die. Everyone is waiting to die.

BIRD: Of those, which was the biggest reason?

M. NASSAR: I don’t remember. All of them.

BIRD: Just pick one.

M. NASSAR: We were afraid for our lives, god forgive us.

SAID: If I may interrupt, in our file it shows that in Baghdad, you lived in Al-Hurriya?

M. NASSAR: Yes.

SAID: This is, if our information is correct, a predominantly Shia neighborhood?

M. NASSAR: Yes.

SAID: Your family however: you are Sunnis, correct?

M. NASSAR: Yes, God be praised.

SAID: Could you describe any incidences of sectarian violence in the neighborhood?

M. NASSAR: There were many. Our mosque was bombed, but at night, praise be to God, so no one was there. It was not safe to be out after dark. One of our neighbors, his son was out with a girl. They had been friends from school. But he was Sunni, like us. A group killed him in the street.

BIRD: Were you personally a witness to this?

M. NASSAR: No, but my son, Jibril, was.

BIRD: Where is Jibril now?

M. NASSAR to K. NASSAR: (inaudible)

M. NASSAR: We don’t know where he is, God forgive us.

BIRD: How old is he?

M. NASSAIR: He is 14.

K. NASSAR: 15.

BIRD: Is he 14 or 15?

K. NASSAR: He is 15.

BIRD: When did you last see him?

M. NASSAR: In Kanaan.

BIRD: What were the circumstances of your being separated from him?

M. NASSAR: The town was under the control of al Nusra. When the Islamic State took control of the town after a fight in April they forced all men over the age of 12 to pledge allegiance to them and to fight with them or to be killed.

BIRD: And you do not know of Jibril’s current whereabouts?

M. NASSAR: No. God forgive me, God forgive me.

BIRD: Okay. And you say that your eldest son witnessed the sectarian killing in Baghdad in 2007? Which means he was how old … help me out here?

SAID: 7 or 8.

BIRD: 7 or 8. Can you describe to me the way he described the killing?

M. NASSAR: He said they told the boy that he was bringing shame to both families. They then …

BIRD: Yes?

M. NASSAR: God have mercy. They … They cut off his head.

BIRD: Is it possible that your father’s murder was motivated by sectarian violence?

M. NASSAR: It is possible, yes.

BIRD: What were the circumstances of his murder?

M. NASSAR: He could never sleep very well. He would go to the bakery, sometimes as early as two or three in the morning, to start the preparations. I would join him after morning prayer. I came in and found him dead. God have mercy on him.

BIRD: How was he killed?

M. NASSAR: He had been shot in the back.

BIRD: Did you receive any threats, before or after the murder?

M. NASSAR: Many.

BIRD: Can you detail the contents of those threats?

M. NASSAR: Sir, it was many years ago.

BIRD: So that is a no?

M. NASSAR: They called us dogs. They threatened to rape my wife or to kill me. I ignored most of them. Everyone got them.

SAID: I think we’ve established that sectarian violence played a role in their leaving Baghdad.

BIRD: Okay. Okay. Can we move on to Syria then? Syria it is. What was the timeline there? When did you arrive and where?

M. NASSAR: My wife was pregnant and wanted to be with her family. We fled in February with the help of a cousin in Damascus, where we stayed.

BIRD: How long were you there?

M. NASSAR: Until after Hana was born.

BIRD: Which was when?

M. NASSAR: January or February again. It is easier to move in winter.

BIRD: Which was it, January or February?

M. NASSAR: I think January.

BIRD: Why did you leave?

M. NASSAR: The apartment was too crowded. There was our family, and my wife’s cousin’s family, and her parents.

BIRD: Did you work during your time in Damascus?

M. NASSAR: No.

BIRD: In your passports, it shows that you returned to Iraq in May, August, November, and again in January, crossing at the Abu Kamal border station every time. This is despite you telling us earlier that you were afraid for your lives in Iraq.

M. NASSAR: The Syrian government would not give residence permits or visas to Sunnis, so in order to live in the country we were forced to leave and return every three months. Otherwise we would be illegal and they would have the right to kick us out. And where would we go?

BIRD: Okay, let’s discuss these one at a time then.

M. NASSAR: Sir?

BIRD: The border crossings. We are going to need detailed information on every crossing: where you stayed, what you did, the purpose behind leaving.

M. NASSAR: I already told you the purpose. It was seven years ago.

BIRD: So the first crossing, at Abu Kamal, is dated May 7^th, 2007. You returned May 9^th, also 2007. The purpose of this trip was for legal reasons, yes?

M. NASSAR: Yes.

BIRD: And no other reasons?

M. NASSAR: No.

BIRD: Where did you stay for those two nights?

M. NASSAR: I can’t remember. It was seven years ago. I don’t know. A hotel, I think.

K. NASSAR: No, we stayed with my cousin’s husband’s sister. Remember? He’s Kurdish.

M. NASSAR: No, no. That was in August. It was so hot, I remember they had no power and it felt like hellfire.

K. NASSAR: No. It was May. It was hot in May. That is why we stayed in a hotel in August.

M. NASSAR: Praise to God, I think you’re right.

BIRD: So you stayed with your …

K. NASSAR: Cousin’s husband’s sister. Aisha Bashar.

BIRD: And we’ll be able to find her, should we look?

K. NASSAR. No. No. She was killed in a bombing in April.

M. NASSAR: God have mercy.

BIRD: Okay. In August, you left the 5^th and returned the 6^th. Were there any other reasons for leaving, beside legal reasons?

M. NASSAR: No.

BIRD: And you stayed at a hotel?

M. NASSAR:

BIRD: Name and address?

M. NASSAR: Sir, it was seven years ago.

BIRD: Try to remember. Any information you can give us will improve your chances.

K. NASSAR to M. NASSAR: (inaudible)

K. NASSAR: It was a family house, run by two Kurds. Brothers. Ali and Muhammad. We cannot remember their last names. They were good, humble men.

BIRD: November you leave on the 3^rd and you do not return until the 12^th. That’s quite a long border run, no?

M. NASSAR: We stayed with her cousin’s husband’s sister. We needed to be out of the city for a time. They needed time alone.

BIRD: Did you go anywhere else or meet with anyone during your time back in Iraq?

M. NASSAR: No.

BIRD: Okay. Then in January, you left on the 28^th and returned on the 29^th.

M. NASSAR: Sir, please. Must we go through every single time?

BIRD: I do apologize, Mr. Nassar, profoundly. The US government requires that we verify the circumstances of every single border crossing. As you can understand, this was a volatile time in your country. We’re deeply concerned about any influences or meetings that might have occurred. Before we can accept anyone as permanent residents of the United States of America we must do our due diligence and ensure the safety and security of the United States of America. I know you must understand.

M. NASSAR: Sir, I’m a baker. I was a baker. I have not worked in eight years. My children think their father does not work. What kind of an example am I setting for them? I want my children to grow up in a home. I want them to go to school, God willing. We are looking for a home. Every home they have had has been taken from them.

BIRD: I understand, sir. I do. And I am terribly sorry. Hopefully, the US government can help you. But before we do that, we need to verify all available information. And you can help yourselves by providing us with that.

SAID: If I may?

BIRD: Of course.

SAID: Ms. Nassar, your memory of names and places seems very good. If I give you a list of all the dates of your border crossings, would you be willing to write down as much information as you can for each one? This will help speed up the process, I think.

BIRD: I’m okay with that.

K. NASSAR: May I?

M. NASSAR: Yes, of course. Her memory is very good. She was a school teacher, after all, God be praised.

BIRD: Okay. We can return to that information later. You left Damascus in February 2008, correct?

M. NASSAR: Yes.

BIRD: Where did you go?

M. NASSAR: First we went to Aleppo.

BIRD: For how long?

M. NASSAR: Just a few months.

BIRD: Where did you stay?

M. NASSAR: On the streets. In abandoned homes, when we could. The police would kick us out when they learned we were Sunni.

BIRD: Do you remember what streets?

M. NASSAR: God have mercy. No. I cannot remember names. Any names.

BIRD: When did you leave Aleppo?

M. NASSAR: We left when summer came. June.

BIRD: Why?

M. NASSAR: We were sleeping on the street, God forgive me. It was summer. The heat was unbearable.

BIRD: And where did you go?

M. NASSAR: We spent the summer in Damascus again. With my wife’s cousin. Then we left in September to go to Kanaan.

BIRD: Why Kanaan?

M. NASSAR: My wife’s cousin, God be pleased with her, had a friend there who found us a place to live. A very small apartment, but an apartment, God be praised.

BIRD: Who was this friend?

M. NASSAR: Salar Sadat.

BIRD: Who is Mr. Sadat?

M. NASSAR: Mr. Salar was a photographer and a teacher. He was Kurdish. Growing up, my grandfather told me, ‘Mustafa, the Kurds are dogs. They deserve to be treated like dogs.’ The only people who have shown us kindness - kindness without condition - have been the Kurds, God be pleased with them.

BIRD: What happened to Mr. Sadat?

M. NASSAR: Mr. Salar was killed in March, when the Islamic State won control of Kanaan.

BIRD: March of 2013?

M. NASSAR: Yes.

BIRD: This was the siege in which your son, Jibril, was conscripted?

M. NASSAR: Yes.

BIRD: With whose aid were you and the rest of your family able to evade capture?

M. NASSAR: Mr. Salar, God be pleased with him, hid us, though he himself was captured.

BIRD: Was Jibril discovered?

M. NASSAR: No. Jibril, God have mercy on him, was with al Nusra. All the boys in town were. He was on watch, I am told.

BIRD: Mr. Nassar, this obviously raises some serious questions. You allowed your oldest son to fight for a group that is classified, by both the US government and the UN, as a terrorist organization.

SAID: We understand there were reasons for such decisions. People were forced to sign up. Or, a shortage of food.

M. NASSAR: My oldest boy was lost to me.

BIRD: We’re going to need more than that, Mr. Nassar.

M. NASSAR: My oldest boy was lost. What can I say? There is no more. There is no more. He is lost.

BIRD: When you mean lost, do you mean that he was recruited? That he rebelled? Did you try to dissuade him from what he was doing?

K. NASSAR: Please, my husband is very upset. We have been through a lot. Most of it, we have moved past. Our son is gone.

SAID to BIRD: (inaudible)

BIRD: Okay. Moving on. On the list you’ve filled out, it appears there are five dates that you don’t remember where you stayed when you crossed into Iraq. The first of those is October 24^th through October 26^th 2008. Do you have any recollection of that trip?